Construction Consultant and Lifelong Builder Talks about the Trade
Some people have a commanding presence. Some people seem to change the temperature in the room. Joe is one of those guys. And he makes it warmer, not colder. Gifted at bringing people together, talented at seeing and loving the good in the people in front of him, Joe is a devoted husband, father, friend, and long-time leader, and dare-i-say innovator, in the field of construction.
Far too humble for words like “innovator,” Joe would likely tell you he’s just a regular guy. This regular guy was the construction manager for Burning Man for 15 years, overseeing the build of The Man, which for those unfamiliar with the festival in the black rock desert, is a several stories high wooden structure of a man who is burned at the end of the festival, from which the event takes its name.
Joe Schwan, known to many as Joe the Builder. is a careful listener and makes you feel he’s got nowhere more important to be than with you – right now – even when his phone is ringing off the hook.
I set out to interview Joe about hiring contractors, as I know he’s worked in the field for decades. The idea came from hearing horror stories from folks in the Bay Area who were trying to do small to large renovation projects. A large swath of folks have reported everything from large, expensive mistakes, to being overridden or not listened to, to delays that went far beyond reason, and most commonly, disappearances, where builders never showed up again or walked off the job and ran off with money, never to be seen again.
Joe has worked as a film and theatre actor, played cello, been a true friend to many, and now primarily wears the hat of being a construction consultant. In this role, he helps clients steer large scale projects to the fnish line. At the time of this interview, he was overseeing 54 million dollars of construction.
At this point in his career, he doesn’t work with residential projects. He is the trusted right hand of an educated client working on large scale commercial builds, everything from multi-story office buildings to a small-scale resort built around hot springs.
He got his start 35 years ago, working under his father who was a contractor. His brother is also a contractor, as are many of his cousins.
I asked him about the reputation of general contractors and the field in general. He was quick to point out, like yelp reviews, “Nobody hears about the good work being done. They hear about the bad work being done but they don’t know why it was done.” He goes on to add:
“Contractors are only as good as their last job. You have to care about what you do, but you cannot please every client. It has to do with this evil word – expectations. Everybody has ’em. The hardest word that a contractor has to say is NO. If they can’t say no, they get spread too thin. And they don’t have the talent to keep up with all the jobs.”
So even if a contractor has mastered the art of saying no, and has ample trained crew members, there are two other things that will delay a job:
“In my 35 years of building, I’ve seen two things delay jobs. Lead times that you don’t think of, and indecision.”
The lead times can have to do with staffing, materials delays, and reliance on subcontractors like HVAC, plumbing, electrical, that can’t always be predicted. As far as indecision, that has to do with design. In Joe’s words, “A contractor is not a designer. They are problem solvers and they can provide solutions. They tell you how to get there from here. They can read the map you give them. They can drive there. But they don’t write the map.”The map in this metaphor would be the plans, the drawings of what the build is supposed to look like. Joe explained “The reason I don’t do residential anymore is because of all the handholding and education I’d have to give my clients. This is why we do this. This is why we do that. These are the means and methods we use.”
Joe described a beautiful home he visited, where one of the owners was a designer. Every since room looked like it came out of a magazine, but none of it went together. Every room looked great, but it didn’t go together. There was a Santa Fe bathroom next to an east indian bedroom.”
The importance of the role of the architect/designer stood out as he described this particular build. It’s the contractor’s job to execute, not design… Joe did weigh in on helping clients think about design. “I tell my clients do what you want. First, ask for what you want. If it becomes cost prohibitive then you can start deducting. Here’s a magazine. I want this megamansion.”
“What is the most important single thing you need to have on a construction job?
“A plan. When a creative (i.e. architect/designer/owner) has an expectation you need to find that out. When I sit down with an architect, you need to find out what is important to them. Some creatives, it is color… or the sprinkler heads or lights have to line up in the same line. Find out what is important to the owner. The most important thing is ______. “
Joe talks about how he commonly gets asked the question, “Well Joe what would you do?” He gives the same response every time, “I’m not gonna live here. I’m not gonna look at that and think, ‘Damn Joe made me do that.’ I know too many things. I’ve seen too many options.”
Instead of designing, he gets into the personality of the jobs. Why are you building this at all? That can sometimes help lead to decisions being made in a good way.
As a construction consultant, he’s been asked why his hourly rate is so high. He uses this metaphor: “I go to the investment banker with 100k to invest. In 15 minutes, he tells you how to turn that 100K into one million.” What was that 15 min worth?
Speaking of costs, Joe occupies an interesting space in the construction world. He’s NOT the General Contractor on large jobs, nor the designer. What he does do is help clients manage their large-scale jobs. He had one client who didn’t hire a GC, but instead hired all subcontractors directly. He saved 200k in subcontractor markups but it took a lot of time and energy to manage the subs. (It is typical for general contractors to mark up the materials, subcontractor fees, etc, as they are paid to manage and oversee the job). There’s another downside to this method… and it has to do with “Indemnity.” If a build goes wrong, each contractor, each facet of the trades, from architect to general contractor, to the subcontractors themselves, each doesn’t want the liability that can occur if something goes wrong. All of them carry insurance, but no one wants to use it, or to be associated with an “Uh oh” on a project.
I asked Joe the perennial question I hear asked, “Why is it so hard to find good GCs?”
He doesn’t pretend the labor shortage in the construction industry isn’t real. “Talented labor is spread thin. You can only grow as big as the labor you can receive. That’s where the labor market is pricing itself out.” He told a story about a friend who needed to rewire his entire house in Oakland. In the Bay Area, the cost of living is high, and there are just not that many folks going into the trades – certainly not as many as we need This leads to a lack of trained, skilled tradespeople… “The bids were coming in at 60 and 70K from local electricians. He called a guy in Indiana. His quote was 25K. His friend put the guy from Indiana up in a hotel. The electrician from Indiana did the job for 25k, he went home and they were both happy.” Joe explained we don’t have nearly enough opportunities for apprenticeship, education, and training for the tradespeople.
The best contractors, he said, are true builders who understand every aspect of the job. Most of them learned by making mistakes. Yes, mistakes. It takes years to learn. The most dangerous contractors are the ones who know enough to think they can do something because they’ve seen it done. For example, they might think with plumbing or electrical, “I’ve seen it done, I can do it.” Terrible, and unfortunate things can occur as a result of them trying to do it themselves instead of hiring subcontractors who know what they are doing.
Another crucial element of what makes a great contractor is someone who can inspire loyalty in their crew. Joe’s way of keeping crew is “Nothing new… teamwork. Empower people. Go to them and ask, ‘How are we gonna get this done? You got any ideas?’ It might take more time, but it keeps everybody motivated.” He adds, “You gotta give a shit. You have to have the kind of ego where you love hiring people smarter than you.” Too large an ego and you can’t open your eyes and allow the input. “Not all the direction comes from the top down. Make everybody on the job part of the solution.”
Joe creates space for everyone on the crew to contribute to the job, to help solve problems, to take initiative. He inspires his crew members, and I suspect that has something to do with: “Commitment. If you don’t commit to the job, you don’t show the desire. What’s recognized in me is the desire.” Joe fully admits most great contractors (who have been in the business any length of time) are booked out two years in advance. “We don’t have enough people on the jobs. There’s no education system. [Historically] The union was the best education system. They taught the trade as people were on the site, seeing, feeling, doing.
There’s also an impediment to being “great” from the eyes of the client. “In this industry, you have to rely on other people and they will let you down. The contractor relies on other people, e.g. subcontractors, and sometimes their own workers don’t come in. Their car breaks down, or they had a baby, etc. This creates a Butterfly effect.”
If there’s a single takeaway from talking to Joe, I’d say this about builders:
Don’t underestimate their sincerity, the complexity of the work, how very many people have to show up on time to keep the whole thing going, and the heart it takes to make it all happen.
